Editing Talk:Nokris, Supplicant to Savathûn
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:The first hypothesis is that Nokris was a brother of Crota, and was erased by the [[Vex]] when they invaded the Dreadnaught.<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XXXVIII:_The_partition_of_death|XXXVIII: The partition of death]]''</ref><ref name="Eye">'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XXXIX:_open_your_eye_:_go_into_it|XXXIX: open your eye : go into it]]''</ref><ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XL:_An_Emperor_For_All_Outcomes|XL: An Emperor For all Outcomes]]''</ref> This predated the creation of [[The World's Grave]], the source of all Hive history and knowledge, and due to the Vex's mastery over time, observing [[The Gorgons]]' power,<ref name="Gorgon">'''Bungie (2014/9/9)''', ''[[Destiny]]: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Vex_Axis_Minds#The_Gorgons|The Gorgons]]''</ref> Nokris was "forgotten" by the Hive, only surviving as a statue, much like how [[Praedyth]]'s gear and minor references in texts survived his erasure. | :The first hypothesis is that Nokris was a brother of Crota, and was erased by the [[Vex]] when they invaded the Dreadnaught.<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XXXVIII:_The_partition_of_death|XXXVIII: The partition of death]]''</ref><ref name="Eye">'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XXXIX:_open_your_eye_:_go_into_it|XXXIX: open your eye : go into it]]''</ref><ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XL:_An_Emperor_For_All_Outcomes|XL: An Emperor For all Outcomes]]''</ref> This predated the creation of [[The World's Grave]], the source of all Hive history and knowledge, and due to the Vex's mastery over time, observing [[The Gorgons]]' power,<ref name="Gorgon">'''Bungie (2014/9/9)''', ''[[Destiny]]: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Vex_Axis_Minds#The_Gorgons|The Gorgons]]''</ref> Nokris was "forgotten" by the Hive, only surviving as a statue, much like how [[Praedyth]]'s gear and minor references in texts survived his erasure. | ||
:There are two problems with this, however. The first is that the Vex are not omnipotent, and indeed the extent of their power is limited to realms they control. The High War was a confusing place, defying the Vex logic. The second is that the Hive godkings are incredibly powerful, with Oryx defeating Quria's every attempt to simulate him,<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XLII:_.3C.3E.7C.3C.3E.7C.3C.3E|XLII: <>|<>|<>]]''</ref><ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XLIII:_End_of_Failed_Timeline|XLIII: End of Failed Timeline]]''</ref> Savathûn merely dismissing the Vex as "blowing up";<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XLIV:_strict_proof_eternal|XLIV: strict proof eternal]]''</ref> and when [[Ir Anûk, Deathsinger|the]] [[Ir Halak, Deathsinger|Hive]] went into the Vex world, they suffered only the loss of power.<ref name="Eye"/> As paracausal beings—"para", beside; "causal", time; literally outside of ordinary physics—[[Ascendant Hive]] refuse to obey ordinary rules, beholden only to [[the Sword Logic]] as their law. Guardians themselves are subject to the Vex's power only inside the [[ | :There are two problems with this, however. The first is that the Vex are not omnipotent, and indeed the extent of their power is limited to realms they control. The High War was a confusing place, defying the Vex logic. The second is that the Hive godkings are incredibly powerful, with Oryx defeating Quria's every attempt to simulate him,<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XLII:_.3C.3E.7C.3C.3E.7C.3C.3E|XLII: <>|<>|<>]]''</ref><ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XLIII:_End_of_Failed_Timeline|XLIII: End of Failed Timeline]]''</ref> Savathûn merely dismissing the Vex as "blowing up";<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XLIV:_strict_proof_eternal|XLIV: strict proof eternal]]''</ref> and when [[Ir Anûk, Deathsinger|the]] [[Ir Halak, Deathsinger|Hive]] went into the Vex world, they suffered only the loss of power.<ref name="Eye"/> As paracausal beings—"para", beside; "causal", time; literally outside of ordinary physics—[[Ascendant Hive]] refuse to obey ordinary rules, beholden only to [[the Sword Logic]] as their law. Guardians themselves are subject to the Vex's power only inside the [[Vault of Glass]], where the Vex reign supreme;<ref name="Gorgon"/><ref>'''Bungie (2014/9/9)''', ''[[Destiny]]: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Vex_Axis_Minds#The_Templar|The Templar]]''</ref><ref>'''Bungie (2014/9/9)''', ''[[Destiny]]: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Vex_Axis_Minds#Atheon.2C_Time.27s_Conflux|Atheon, Time's Conflux]]''</ref> nothing suggests that Crota stumbled into the Vault, and indeed his survival ("''come home glorious, or die forgotten''") speaks against Nokris' erasure. Lastly, an argument from silence: Nokris was not erased by the Vex because they never touched him. Everything in the Books of Sorrow relating to the Vex stems from Crota and Savathûn, and only Crota was thrown into the Vex conflux. | ||
:The second hypothesis rests upon three factors. Nokris was Crota's mother, betrayed Oryx, and was killed; but out of sentimentality, her statue was left alone. Crota's mother in the Books is unnamed, Oryx speaking to his son about her offhandedly,<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XXXVI:_Eater_of_Hope|XXXVI: Eater of Hope]]''</ref> and nothing more appears about her. Stemming from the Hebrew word "Nokri" is the definition "adulteress", which is "unfaithful woman"; in the context of the Hive, Nokris betrayed Oryx, attempting to kill him and seize his power, but failed. Similarly, "Nox" was the primordial mother of the Greco-Roman deities, "Thanatos" (Death) and "Hypnos" (Sleep), with her counterpart "Erebus" (Darkness). Finally, the [[Crucible]] map [[Cathedral of Dusk]].<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Activities/Crucible_Arenas#Cathedral_of_Dusk|Cathedral of Dusk]]''</ref> The flavor text suggests that it is a burial site for someone close to Oryx—logic dictates it is for Crota, but one of the possibilities is the unnamed mother of Crota as the text mentions "lover". Ultimately this last hypothesis is conjecture and rests upon shaky evidence, as the "adulteress" definition is only used a few times in the Bible, whereas the "foreigner" is overwhelming used instead. | :The second hypothesis rests upon three factors. Nokris was Crota's mother, betrayed Oryx, and was killed; but out of sentimentality, her statue was left alone. Crota's mother in the Books is unnamed, Oryx speaking to his son about her offhandedly,<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XXXVI:_Eater_of_Hope|XXXVI: Eater of Hope]]''</ref> and nothing more appears about her. Stemming from the Hebrew word "Nokri" is the definition "adulteress", which is "unfaithful woman"; in the context of the Hive, Nokris betrayed Oryx, attempting to kill him and seize his power, but failed. Similarly, "Nox" was the primordial mother of the Greco-Roman deities, "Thanatos" (Death) and "Hypnos" (Sleep), with her counterpart "Erebus" (Darkness). Finally, the [[Crucible]] map [[Cathedral of Dusk]].<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Activities/Crucible_Arenas#Cathedral_of_Dusk|Cathedral of Dusk]]''</ref> The flavor text suggests that it is a burial site for someone close to Oryx—logic dictates it is for Crota, but one of the possibilities is the unnamed mother of Crota as the text mentions "lover". Ultimately this last hypothesis is conjecture and rests upon shaky evidence, as the "adulteress" definition is only used a few times in the Bible, whereas the "foreigner" is overwhelming used instead. | ||
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==Is Nokris currently Taken?== | ==Is Nokris currently Taken?== | ||
I dunno, something is off about how Nokris just forsaken Xol, (presumably He left them for the Guardian, becoming the Whisper of the Worm. But Nokris also praises about his aunt, and talk some stuff about Taking and Sava-thot is gonna save us by Taking us...It sounds like Nokris might have been Taken by Savathûn, and plus why would Nokris, just go to Savathûn and not with other Hive, such as his Faction, or Xivu, or the Hidden Swarm, (however that may not be possible of him joint the Swarm, due to him being forsaken by Oryx and his spawn, including The Swarm, unless as a very desperate attempt), I dunno it just fishy if Nokris was freely given access to his Aunt’s throne world. Unless he have been Taken by her, or probably been just like his faction, whom began flocking to the Witch Queen. (Also, this Theory might sound a bit far fetched, Why I’m feeling this, is because I watched a Byf video, “That sounds like a YOU PROBLEM” type of video, of the great lore masters, having their brain cells, being fried or trolls, by people of the weird side of the Destiny Community on the internet). {{User:Joskaa/Sig}}02:30, June 11, 2020 (EDT) | I dunno, something is off about how Nokris just forsaken Xol, (presumably He left them for the Guardian, becoming the Whisper of the Worm. But Nokris also praises about his aunt, and talk some stuff about Taking and Sava-thot is gonna save us by Taking us...It sounds like Nokris might have been Taken by Savathûn, and plus why would Nokris, just go to Savathûn and not with other Hive, such as his Faction, or Xivu, or the Hidden Swarm, (however that may not be possible of him joint the Swarm, due to him being forsaken by Oryx and his spawn, including The Swarm, unless as a very desperate attempt), I dunno it just fishy if Nokris was freely given access to his Aunt’s throne world. Unless he have been Taken by her, or probably been just like his faction, whom began flocking to the Witch Queen. (Also, this Theory might sound a bit far fetched, Why I’m feeling this, is because I watched a Byf video, “That sounds like a YOU PROBLEM” type of video, of the great lore masters, having their brain cells, being fried or trolls, by people of the weird side of the Destiny Community on the internet). {{User:Joskaa/Sig}}02:30, June 11, 2020 (EDT) | ||
==References== | ==References== | ||
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